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Saturday, January 26, 2008

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Obama comparing himself to Kennedy or Lincoln is not "absurd" it's inevitable.

Bravo, Kevin, Wilentz is indeed misrepresenting the past for partisan advantage, which is exactly where all these "Historians for X" efforts end.

The worst hackery in the piece is the section you quote near the end: "Historians cannot expect all politicians and their supporters to know as much about American history as, say, John F. Kennedy, who won the Pulitzer Prize for a work of history. But it is reasonable to expect respect for the basic facts -- and not contribute to cheapening the historical currency."

John F. Kennedy did not write that book! The vast bulk of it was composed by his speech writer Ted Sorenson. Cecil Adams writes a nice summary of the evidence in a Straight Dope column:

"The most thorough analysis of who did what has come from historian Herbert Parmet in Jack: The Struggles of John F. Kennedy (1980). Parmet interviewed the participants and reviewed a crateful of papers in the Kennedy Library. He found that Kennedy contributed some notes, mostly on John Quincy Adams, but little that made it into the finished product. "There is no evidence of a Kennedy draft for the overwhelming bulk of the book," Parmet writes. While "the choices, message, and tone of the volume are unmistakably Kennedy's," the actual work was "left to committee labor." The "literary craftsmanship [was] clearly Sorensen's, and he gave the book both the drama and flow that made for readability." Parmet, like everyone else, shrinks from saying Sorensen was the book's ghostwriter, but clearly he was."

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031107.html

Wilentz knows this perfectly well. He discards "respect for basic facts" for cheap political points. He seems to be applying for the position of court historian to the Clintons, and he has proven himself worthy of the role.

Larry, -- Thanks for the thoughtful comment and for the Sorenson connection.

I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but I liked Wilentz's piece.

Ultimately, these comparisons are meaningless....like "alternative" histories. That being said, if a candidate comes on the scene and begins eliciting comparisons to Jefferson, Madison, Lincoln and Kennedy, than there should be some examination of the claim.

Nothing in the op-ed seemed to me to be off-base from a standpoint of factual accuracy. He is drawing a comparison between a junior senator with a slim portfolio and a great stump speech to some of the great leaders of our history. Maybe "absurd" is a loaded word, but I don't know that he's slanting the facts to suit his argument.

Did Kennedy write "Profiles in Courage" No, not entirely. Did Hillary Clinton write every word of "It Takes a Village?" No, she didn't. Did Barack Obama write every word of "The Audacity of Hope?" Probably not. Most politicians in the modern era have used speechwriters and wordsmiths to do the heavy lifting.

(And in the spirit of full disclosure: I'm a supporter of Hillary Clinton, and I just spent the last two days at the Washington & Lee Mock Convention over in Lexington for a magazine I write for....and in my off hours, I've studying the breakdown of the relationship between African-Americans and women over suffrage in the 1860s. So I've been pretty much obsessed with how race and gender have been playing out in this contest so far.)

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. The facts of Lincoln's and Kennedy's pre-presidential public careers are well established. No one debates the facts. My concern is that Wilentz wants us to see his evaluation of those facts in comparison with Obama as historical - that his credentials as a historian add weight to his claims. I don't see that. I saw a short news report about the W&L mock convention and it looked like a real blast.

Mock Con was a blast, and going as part of the press was really fun. History loomed large in many of the speeches I heard, especially Jim Webb, Geraldine Ferraro, and Charlie Wilson -- although it was clear that a lot of it went over the heads of the student audience. Most of them were not even born when Ferraro ran for Veep, and were younguns when the Cold War ended. As soon as Webb started talking about the role of the Scots-Irish in the development of a vibrant democracy, I think I could actually hear some eyes start to glaze over.

To just briefly to revisit the Wilentz issue: while I don't disagree with you that it is important to take his comments with a grain of salt given his stated support of Hillary Clinton, I think we need to stop talking about process and just get down in the mud and wrestle it out.

If someone wants to counter Wilentz's arguments or his interpretations, that's great. That's what should be happening.

But if we get balled up over whether he loses his credibility as a historian because he happens to support Candidate A, B, or C, we lose an opportunity to make a contribution to the democratic process. We end the historical discussion before it even gets off the ground.

And with that, I'll pipe down for a while, and we can get back to the Civil War where we belong. :-)

Heather, -- I just want to clarify that I don't in any way believe that Wilentz's comments pose any threat to his standing as a historian. Wilentz is an incredibly talented historian and I highly recommend, _The Rise of American Democracy_. Again, I just don't believe that Wilentz was doing history in his Op-Ed.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here, Kevin. I think Obama's lack of experience should be of great concern to voters, and the fact that his campaign has decided to try and alleviate that concern by spinning history is also a cause for concern. Isn't Wilentz's article exactly the kind of speaking out by historians that you have advocated in the past?

Sean, -- First, let me be clear I am not suggesting one way or another whether Obama's "experience should be of great concern to voters." I agree that historians can play a crucial role in reigning in the way the past is used for our own purposes. My problem is that I don't believe that Wilentz's Op-Ed piece rises to that level or even approaches it.

Kevin:

Ted Kennedy also will endorse Obama today. Perhaps he's misinterpreting the past too, but I tend to think that he's simply focusing on a different past. According to reports at least, he's decided that Bill Clinton has to be stopped from using race to divide Democratic voters in some intra-party version of Nixon's Southern Strategy, as he did in South Carolina.

Ken

I understand your point, Kevin, but I think Wilentz makes his case rather well. What is it about his argument that you take issue with on the facts, aside from the passing reference to Profiles in Courage?

My concern is that the comparative points made by Wilentz are rather simplistic without any explanation as to why the comparison should be made on those grounds. A friend pointed out to me yesterday that it is important to know whether serving in the House or Senate in the 1950s or time spent in a state legislature in the 1830s is worth comparing at all, and if so, why.

Again, my problem is that any political hack on MSNBC or CNN could have made that point. I expect more from a historian of Wilentz's caliber. I really don't know what else to say on this.

Well, I would certainly agree that it is difficult to compare political experiences in the present day to those in the mid 1800s. And more to the point, I think political experience today is much more crucial in a presidential candidate that it was in Lincoln's day, or even in Kennedy's day. So to that extent I agree with you.

However, I doubt strongly that just any "political hack" would have been able to write Wilentz's piece. Most of them, like most Americans, don't seem to have sufficient grounding in our history.

I haven't read the piece by Joseph Ellis that Wilentz refers to. Is it worth tracking down?

I have not read the Ellis piece. In terms of whether the content included in his piece reflects a sophisticated understanding of the past, well, I guess we will have to disagree. What did he do besides simply cite a few facts about Lincoln and Kennedy?

Kevin,

I never said that Wilentz's piece was a sophisticated analysis. As far as I can tell, his only intention was to refute the claim that Obama's lack of experience is comparable to Lincoln's and Kennedy's supposed lack of experience. And I think he did just that. Whether it is useful to make such a comparison is up for discussion. As I saw it, Wilentz was simply responding to a dubious assertion being made by Obama's supporters.

Heather and Sean: I think you both move too quickly past the question of Wilentz's honesty in the piece. When he states that "John F. Kennedy . . . won the Pulitzer Prize for a work of history" he is presenting something that he surely knows to be false. That other politicians have had their ghost writers is hardly the point, the point is that Wilentz presents Kennedy as a accomplished historian, while knowing this not to be the case. This is no matter of interpretation, it is a matter of intellectual honesty.

What a wonderful post and discussion. I may try to think of something interesting to say on the subject later. For now, though, thanks Kevin. And also: Larry I agree with everything you've written above. Which should probably make you rethink all of your arguments, as I'm always wrong.

Kevin: Your comment that neither Kennedy, Obama or Clinton wrote all their own books is simply untrue. Kennedy had Sorensen; Hillary had Barbara Feinman; Barack Obama actually wrote his book by himself.

And why is it that Hillary partisans always refer to Obama's "slim portfolio" when she has spent considerably less time in elected office? Does Clinton's time as first lady somehow make her a more experienced legislator than Obama?

Tony, -- First of all I said nothing in my post re: the authorship of anything. I think the operative point is that Kennedy's book was intended as a contribution to the scholarship on the subject while Clinton and Obama authored autobiographies. Seems to me to be a comparison between apples and oranges.

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